Newmarket Oral History: Jeff Matthews

Jeff Matthews (b. 1967) speaks to interviewer Virginia Macleod. He grew up near Coonabarabran, where his family ran a sawmill, and enjoyed a rural childhood of fishing, shooting, pony club, and mustering. After apprenticing as a carpenter in Sydney in 1984, he returned to local construction and later worked for a mining company near Boggabri. In 1994 he successfully applied to join Newmarket as a maintenance carpenter under Reg Inglis, learning much from Jack Burraston. As maintenance demands decreased, he also assumed responsibility for complex management. Jeff worked initially in old Stable 1 and oversaw its replacement, along with the rebuilding of Stables 2. He supervises gardeners, stable hands, and an assistant manager, bringing in casual staff during busy sale periods. Sales peak from January to June and require significant preparation: securing bedding and feed, readying stables two weeks before horses arrive, and settling horses in the days leading up to each sale. During sales, staff maintain the grounds, support vendors, and manage horse movement. On sale days, both Inglis and owners’ staff wear uniforms, and horses are groomed, paraded, sold, and moved out quickly. The complex also hosts social gatherings and events. Jeff works from the 1885 timber Big Stable, which he values as a carpenter, and discusses its design and maintenance. He lives onsite in Chiltern Cottage and raised his children there, enjoying the close community. When free, he returns to the country and continues riding his cutting horse.

Today is the 11th of July 2017 and I'm speaking with Jeff Matthews who is Complex Manager for the Inglis Newmarket Stables.  This recording is for the Newmarket Stables Oral History Project.  My name is Virginia Macleod and we’re speaking at the stables.

                 Good morning, Jeff.  Now, I'd just like to ask you what year you were born as a reference.

                 I was born in March 1967.

                 Great.  And where were you born?

                 I was born in Coonabarabran, New South Wales.

                 And did you grow up there?

                 I did.  I grew up in a little town near Coonabarabran, called Baradine, and I spent all my early childhood there, until I turned seventeen.

                 So you went to school there?

                 I did.  I went to the local school in Baradine, did all my schooling there and, yeah, had a wonderful childhood.

                 Were you out in the countryside or in the town?

                 I'd grew up in town.  I grew up with a sawmilling family, however I spent a lot of time on farms out of town.

                 What, with friends or where?

                 With friends and with the interest in horses, mustering and just enjoying country life as such.

                 And so your dad owned the sawmill, did he?

                 Yes.  My dad and his brother owned a sawmill in Baradine and years later they sold that and my dad stayed on as a manager for a company called Insultimber that logged the Pilliga. 

                 And what about your mum – did she work too?

                 Yes, my mum, she also worked in the office in the sawmill for her father, who previously owned the sawmill, and then later in life she worked with a group of doctors as a practice manager between Coonabarabran and Baradine.

                 So it was a family business?

                 Yeah.

                 And you were all involved, or at least your parents were both involved?

                 Absolutely, yes.  It was all hands-on around a sawmill; there was no time for slackness there, growing up.  And, coming of age, I decided that I'd had enough of sawmills and I'd served my apprenticeship there.

                 Just tell me, do you have brothers and sisters?

                 I have one older sister, Katrina.

                 And when you left school, what did you decide to do?

                 I always had it in the back of my mind I would like to become a carpenter, because my dad is a carpenter, and his father before him - so that was in the blood too.  So I pursued a carpenter’s apprenticeship, and was lucky enough to find one in Sydney, and continued to serve my apprenticeship in Sydney from, I think, 1984, and got through and got my certificate and I was home at the age of twenty or twenty one with my builder’s or carpenter’s certificate.

                 Just tell me a little bit about the training – I’m interested.  So were you on the job, going to tech, or where did you go?

                 Yes, I was an indentured apprentice.  So I started with a carpenter as such, building houses and cottages and so forth, and then he changed locations, so he indentured me, to a bigger company called Cedra Constructions, which there was a lot of heavier construction involved there.  And I would go to tech one day a week for three years, and that was an education on its own.

                 And did you enjoy being in the city?

                 Not really.  I was always a country boy at heart and, I struggled with the first twelve months, and then a few friends that also acquired jobs in the eastern suburbs, they were moving down and that made it a whole lot easier but, I used to go home quite a lot.

                 So you had company, yeah.

                 Yes.

                 And so then you returned back to Baradine?

                 I did.  After my apprenticeship, or shortly after serving my apprenticeship, I was very keen to get back to the country; I seemed to be missing out on a lot of things, football and so forth.  So I returned home and took up a job as a carpenter, with a friend back in Coonabarabran, and continued to do cottage work, and some other construction too.  I then went on and worked for a company that did a lot of infrastructure in mines around Boggabri.  So I lived out of Boggabri for about twelve months, building infrastructure in one of the mines, out from Gunnedah.

                 Actually in the mine?

                 It was not actually in the mine.  It was, we were building a new mine, so we built a lot of the infrastructure for a new coalmine.

                 What, the buildings around it?

                 Yes, yeah, sheds, offices, wet areas, so forth, loading ramps, crusher pits.  Yeah, it was an interesting job.

                 So it was a bit different?

                 A bit different to building cottages.

                 Yes.

                 And met a lot of different people through that job, and still have some great mates that I look back on that we met along the way.

                 And then how did you come to work with the Inglis family – was that soon after?

                 Yes, it was a little while after.  Building had got a little bit slow in country, at the time, so I decided to come to Sydney and just have a look around.  And whilst I was working on a building site down here, my grandmother at the time noticed an ad in The Land and it was a maintenance manager for the complex here at Randwick, and my grandmother thought this job would be the ideal job for me, so I thought ‘Oh, yeah’.  It looked a little bit above me but I'll give it a shot.  And Reg Inglis at the time was the managing director and we decided to give each other about three months and see how we went, and I sort of never looked back.

                 That’s good.

                 Yeah.

                 Your grandmother knew you well then.

                 She sure did, yes, yeah.

                 Were you close to each other?

                 We were.  My grandmother and I were very close and she was a good hand in the bush.  She was a good clay pigeon shot, and she was pretty hands-on and didn’t put up with much rot.

                 Did she live with your family when you were young?

                 No, we lived quite close.  So she only lived across the road, so with mum and dad starting early in their working life, I used to spend a lot of time with my grandparents in Baradine.

                 And did she teach you to shoot clay pigeons?

                 Between my grandmother and grandfather, they sure did.  Every other weekend we were off shooting somewhere, and we were all pretty good at it in the finish - that and fishing.  My grandfather was a keen fisherman and my grandmother loved it as well so, we spent many a time out of town either shooting or fishing or whatever it was.  We had a lot of fun.

                 And you said you had an interest in horses, even as a child.  So was that part of why she thought you might like this job, do you think?

                 That's right.  I was lucky enough to have a pony from a very young age, and especially living in town that wasn’t an easy thing to do.  However, my dad, he could see that I had a keen interest, so ended up getting me a pony and it went from there.  Any other time I wasn’t fishing or shooting, perhaps, I was riding a pony and we had a lot of fun around town on ponies but more so when we got to, you know, muster cattle and jobs like that.

                 So you were doing that on horseback or on a motorbike?

                 On the horseback, yeah.

                 Yeah.

                 Yeah, all horseback and I had some good friends that their families owned properties, so I would often be weekends on their properties, helping muster, and, yeah, it was a great childhood.

                 And would you ride out there from Baradine to the property on your horse?

                 Yes, now and again; the closer ones I would.  We also went to pony club, which the local pony club was Gwabegar which is a little town out from Baradine and my pony was kept at a property about six mile from the pony club.  So dad or mum would get me there quite early and I'd have to find the pony in a paddock and get him saddled up, and get to pony club before it started, and that seemed to be half a day’s work before it started but it never seemed a challenge.

                 Good.  So you met Reg Inglis and you gave it three months, and obviously you both got on.

                 That's right.  Reg, when we first met there was no grey areas, I can tell you, and I thought I could do the job and he, I guess, thought I must have been able to as well.  So we gave it a shot and then, yeah, I just kept my end of the deal up, and so did he.

                 And when was that that you started here?

                 It was 1994 that I started, March of 1994.

                 And initially what were your duties?

                 Yeah, initially I was employed as a maintenance carpenter, having my carpenter’s background.  I don't know, that they realised I had a horse background.  However, it was with the stock horses and racehorses in a small capacity.  So, as the buildings developed over the years, the maintenance role seemed to diminish somewhat, with the new building coming on.  So the chap that was in charge, Ryan Faulkner, who was the stable foreman at the time, he moved on – he was pursuing other interests – and Reg decided that he’d give me a shot at handling both jobs, with the maintenance coming to not a halt, but minimising.

                 Diminishing a bit?

                 Yeah.  And so, yeah, it sort of started from there.

                 And when you say the maintenance got less, was that because about that time they had built a lot of newer stables?

                 That's right.  The first development or new development after I started was stable 1 and that particular stable there was a lot of maintenance.  There were very old sliding doors, and, the actual building was sinking, and there was a lot of maintenance in these sliding doors.  We were cutting them off, and getting ready for sales and through sales, and anyway I was pleased to see the end of it, actually.  So we were lucky enough to have a new stable built in stable 1.

                 Were you involved in the building or they brought in someone?

                 No.  So they brought in a builder that had been involved in stable 4 development, prior to me, and he knew what he was doing and it was great to see it go up and be a part of that, and certainly supported him where I could.

                 And was the design very different?  You know, you talked about sliding doors – did you still have sliding doors?

                 Yes.  The old sliding doors, you know, it was all a timber frame building, so over the years it had sunk and the newer building was all on concrete, footings on steel so that fixed that problem.

                 And were there any other changes at that time in the design?

                 Yes, the old stable 1 was a lot more closed-in.  It had a couple of big sliding doors at each end and a lot of people used to refer to it as the ‘rabbit warrens’.  So they were low roofs, it was very hot, and it had a clay floor or a sand floor.  So certainly when the new stable went up, people welcomed it with open arms, you know, one, the ventilation, and the ease of walking through it was much more friendlier to horses and humans.

                 And it sounds like it would have been easier to clean out and manage generally, perhaps.

                 Absolutely.  And I remember myself with colleagues cleaning out stable 1 with pitchforks in the days that we used straw as bedding, and you knew you'd worked eight or ten hours a day by the time you finished up in stable 1.

                 What was the smell like?

                 Yeah, the smell was pretty horrific after an Easter yearling sale and then a broodmare sale, backing up after that, and often I'd see stables that, the bedding wasn’t far from the level of your hips.  So, yeah, we had our work cut out in those days, I can tell you.

                 So you had to wade in to clean it out?

                 Almost! My word, you could get a bin full of straw out of the front of the box without making too much damage to the box.

                 And was it prickly?  I mean all the straw, does it get into your clothes?

                 No, it wasn’t too bad.  It was softened after a day; there was a lot of moisture in it.  However, the smell would get into your clothes so, you know, you'd probably walk through the laundry first and strip off, and then head for the shower, and clothes straight in the washing machine.

                 Right ...

                 I do remember those smells.

                 Yes, yeah.  So stable number 1 was the first to be rebuilt and then what happened after that?

                 So after stable 1, I just don’t recall how many years, but a few years after that, stable 2 was developed.

                 And that’s the other side of Young Street?

                 That's right.  It’s on the western side of Young Street, and stable 2 was made up of several little barns and rows, on a big footprint.  So when we developed stable 2, we had more access to boxes, we put a lot more stables on that site.  I think we went from something like a hundred and ten, to almost double that, two hundred boxes.

                 Just by redesigning?

                 Just by redesigning it.

                 When you say ‘boxes’, you mean - - -

                 I mean stables.

                 So per horse?

                 Per horse, yes.  So stable 2 had a lot of horses under one big roof and, yeah, so it was a welcome development as well at the time, with those older stables in stable 2, needing ongoing maintenance as well.

                 And it’s a similar design as far as roof and ventilation goes?

                 Yes.  Same architect, obviously, and with that high roof for ventilation and ease of access coming in off Young Street.  A little bit crowded for parade area; we were probably a bit top-heavy on stables and not enough parade area.  However, we made it work.

                 And then stable 3, has that been rebuilt too?

                 Stable 3, no.  It still stands and we did develop some nice big parade areas off stable 3 and we looked at the boxes over the years and we relined them somewhat.

                 With timber?

                 With timber, yeah, with timber and we got it across the line, I guess.  But the vendors that were housed in there were reasonably happy but it also needed ongoing maintenance right to this day.  But people that sold horses out of there were very happy and they had a very good parade area which somewhat compromised being in stable 3.

                 And out of interest, is timber a better material for horses to be stabled in - - -

                 I think so.

                 - - - because you think, well, you could have built brick?

                 Yes, yeah.

                 Is there a reason for that?

                 Timber, I think, is a little bit forgiving.  You know, you have a horse kick a brick wall and there’s no give at all, where you have a horse kick into a timber wall and there is some flex and I just think it’s a warmer product to have around horses.

                 So do you think the horses notice the accommodation when they come here?

                 I don't know about that but they certainly seem happy enough in there.

                 No, I just wondered if they were more settled in the newer – you know, you said the ventilation’s better.

                 Yes, yeah.  Absolutely, I think in the newer stables they can see out a little way, and see a few mates or whatnot where some of the older stables were quite closed up.  So, yeah, to answer your question I think they probably would be happier in the newer style stables, being able to see out a bit further.

                 So just coming round to your job.  So after that you were basically managing the whole complex at that time and I just wondered what does that involve?  What’s a typical day, or week in your life?

                 Yeah, yeah.  Typically, Virginia, we start the day off by checking the place.  We have a look around and see, you know, how things are and then if we have casual staff on, which a lot of the time we do, we get them started, check how they're doing, check what they need to do.

                 What sort of staff are these?

                 Casual staff of like, fellows that are cleaning out stables basically, or preparing stables for an upcoming sale.  So we have a pretty good little team that help out and have been here quite some time, a few of them.  So, yeah, they're great to work with, and then I work closely with the gardeners.  They start off in the morning by blowing under the fig tree, cleaning up leaves and so forth and, yeah, just overseeing the complex.

                 Making sure everything’s spic and span?

                 Absolutely, and it’s after a sale we’re cleaning up, and if it’s before a sale, you know, often we’ll have contractors in, so overseeing the contractors and keeping an eye on what they're doing, and when they're doing it and coordinating people coming and going, and basically getting it looking, you know, a hundred per cent, before our horses turn up for a sale.

                 And are there any other employees here that you're overseeing generally?

                 Yes.  I have an assistant complex manager, David Roberts, and he’s been a great asset to me in recent years, with helping with all those duties I've just mentioned, and David’s a fellow that can work along on his own, unassisted, whether I’m here or not, so he’s more or less me, when I’m not here and does a good job at it.

                 And you actually live onsite.  So does it end up being seven days a week or do you manage to get days off?

                 It is at times, yes, especially leading into sales and having contractors coming and going.  Quite often, I’m doing something of a Saturday or a Sunday - however, I knew the job I was taking on.  And I really love to get away to the bush, and that’s when I have a real break.  However, I like my role, and I like being outdoors, so it’s not a challenge to come out and speak to somebody or show somebody around.

                 So you're moving round the complex and outdoors?

                 That's right, yes, yeah.

                 Maybe we should get on and talk about the sales, because, as I understand it for a lot of the time the place is empty and the big focus is when horses come in for the sales.  Is that right?

                 Yeah, absolutely.

                 So what preparations do you do?

                 So preparation leading into the sale we’ll have all the stables bedded down, so that’s a big job in itself, ordering in shavings, and getting the boxes bedded down.

                 What else do you put in – just shavings?

                 Just shavings, yeah.  We used to use straw.  However, it became very hard to get rid of and bulky to manage, so we’ve changed to shavings as a lot of people have.

                 And where do you get those from?

                 We source that from Victoria and there’s also some available quite close in New South Wales.  However, we have a good relationship with the company in Victoria, that also supply our complex at Oaklands Junction.  So, yeah, apart from shavings, once all the boxes are bedded down - - -

                 And how deep do you have shavings?

                 We’d have it about eight inches, and we’re a little bit conservative with it, knowing that when staff turn up they're likely to add a few more to it.  So, yeah, we start off a little bit more conservative and then by the end of the sale, you know, they're pretty full.

                 You keep adding each day to freshen it up?

                 That's right, freshen it up, yeah.  And then feed, we supply chaffs and lucerne hay, so all those feeds have to be in place before a horse turns up.  So we get a lot of this done - obviously before horses turn up we have trucks and tractors and whatnot wandering around the complex and I like to have it all finished before the first horse turns up.  You know, horses and machines don’t always mix.

                 So how many weeks ahead do you have to get that all in place?

                 Say for a January sale, we’d want everything in place a good couple of weeks before horses turned up - always like to have a couple of week buffer zone – and then I find that we can put the polish on other areas, footpaths.  Yeah, there’s plenty to do, so always being a couple of weeks ahead, I can sleep a whole lot easier.

                 And so say a sale was at the end of January, when would you be bringing in all the shaving?

                 Yeah.  So say for the Classic sale, which is early February, we’d like to have all the bedding in the boxes before Christmas, not necessarily bedded down but at least in their cubes.

                 Waiting to be - - -

                 Yeah, waiting to be opened.

                 Does it come in bales or packs?

                 It does, it comes in small bales, which you can manage, and we usually put about eight to ten of those in to start with.  And, yeah, once the product is in the stables you can go away at Christmas time, and rest assured that it’s there when we get back, and it’s only a matter of cutting bags and laying them.  And then our feeds I wouldn’t bring in to sort of, you know, three weeks or a fortnight before horses turn up so it’s good and fresh and in good order.

                 So you get lucerne -?

                 Yeah, we supply lucerne, chaff, wheaten and oaten chaff, good oats, clean oats, and lucerne hay and that seems to satisfy most people.  There’s a trend now people feed a lot of sweet feeds, and there’s all types of mixes of those.  So we don’t try and interfere with that - people feed differently – so we provide the basic feeds, and then they put their additives in.

                 And how much of all of that would a horse eat in a day?  I have no idea.

                 A horse’ll eat two good biscuits of hay a day and, you know, a couple of four-gallon buckets of chaff.  So it adds up.  At the end of the day, there’s a lot of feed around the place, there’s a lot of hay, a lot of bedding in storage.

                 Where do you store it all, which part of the complex?

                 We have a shed, a main feed shed, on the complex which the majority of it is stored there, and around the stables, we use an odd stable as a bulk feeder and so we’ll have it pretty well stacked up before a sale, that’s easy to access for the staff.

                 So one stable in each building will be full of feed - - -

                 That's right, yes.

                 - - - and you don’t have to be driving it around the grounds?

                 Absolutely, yeah.  And then if we have to add to these storerooms or feed rooms, we’ll do it after hours.  So once all the horses are put away, we sneak around at night, and top those feed bins up and whatnot, yeah.

                 So you’ve got the feed in and the stables are ready.  What else do you have to do after that?

                 Stable waste is a big issue, a big part of our job.  So I have a team of guys on that manage that.  Those same fellows that help the feeds, they all will wheel out the bins, after everybody’s gone home, sometimes throughout the day if they can get a bit of a run of it, and then a truck will pick up the stable waste, sort of later on that evening.

                 And where does it go?

                 It goes to western Sydney and they make a lawn conditioner out of it, so it’s all recycled, and we’re very much aware of that.  So, yeah, it’s going to a good home.

                 That’s good.

                 Yeah.

                 It would be hard to deal with the volumes on site, wouldn’t it, I guess?

                 That's right, yes, and it is quite tricky to manage: if we miss a truck one night, we’re in all sorts of bother.  So the company that we use, Organic Recycling Group, are a very professional outfit, and they're well aware of our sales situation, when we’ve got international people here and the best horses in the land here; they step up and they do a good job.

                 Great.  You rely on them, yeah.

                 My word.

                 And then as it gets closer to the sale, what happens next?

                 As horses turn up - - -

                 Do you know when they're coming?

                 Yes, yeah.  We have a - - -

                 A schedule?

                 - - - schedule.

                 Who organises that – you?

                 No, some of the bloodstock staff would indicate to us when horses are coming in, and we’d have a pretty good idea.  So once horses start to turn up, obviously any external works stop.  You know, we have horses turning up, and horses that have probably never been off the property in their life so they're pretty highly strung, some of them, so getting them in is a tricky job.  However, the stud staff that handle them do a great job, and, touch wood, we haven't had too many incidents at all.

                 What sort of incidents happened?

                 Here at Randwick we have to cross two roads with these horses in Young Street, so we have staff on each crossing that are guiding horses across and we’re very cautious with the public, and mixing these type of animals with the general public, so that has to be dealt with very carefully.

                 So are they unloaded in one place and then walked to their stable or do they come in a horse float, I guess?

                 Yes, they come mainly in nine-horse and above, horse floats, mainly, so they are unloaded in our truck area, which is an unloading facility in stable 3.  And then they're led through stable 3, across the road to stable 4, which then leads up to stable 1, and then across the road again to stable 2.  So in years gone by they used to be led up Young Street, and now that there’s, you know, a whole lot more traffic around and work health and safety, it’s - - -

                 Too difficult.

                 Yeah, yeah.

                 Right.  So they come across the bottom of Young Street and then up through the compound and across if they're going to stable 2?

                 That's right, yes.  And we’ve had that in place now for quite some years, and it works pretty well.  And it’s not an easy task but, what we have in place works well and it seems to be safe.

                 So the horses get a little bit of a walk?  It’s not like they're kind of straight out of the horsebox and into the stable?

                 That's right, and I think that’s a good thing, I think.  Horses coming off floats, people love to be able to get them into a stable pretty quickly, and I've led them off the trucks and I can see why, but I think a horse that’s been led and probably walk for five minutes before he goes into his box is probably a little bit happier, so I don’t think that’s a challenge at all.

                 And what sort of journeys do these horses have – how far away do they come from?

                 Some of these horses, the majority of these horses would be on about a five hour float trip, probably from Scone, or the Hunter Valley.  However, we bring horses from, you know, Queensland and South Australia, and other states, but they would be rested along the way.

                 What, you mean taken to somewhere where they can be in the paddock?

                 That's right, to a facility they’d be rested on the way.  They'd have a night off, a feed and a water and then back on the float and, back on the road.  But they all seem to cope very well and the floats these days are made especially for these thoroughbred horses so, they travel pretty safely, and comfortably.

                 Okay, so the horses start arriving over a period of how long?

                 Yeah, about four or five days.  They're expected to be in by a certain date leading into a sale, so we can ensure our clients that horses are available for inspection.

                 So how long?

                 It’d be at least five days before a major sale, at least.  So, yeah, they turn up pretty much over four or five days leading in – or probably ten days before an Easter sale.  So, you know, once the horses are all in and settled down, it usually takes a couple of days for them to accept their new home.

                 So what do they do that shows they're not accepting it?

                 Well, as soon as they get here, they whinny a lot and they, you know, meet and greet each other and they may be a little bit shy on some of the surrounds.  However, forty-eight hours later, they're home and hosed and they get to know the place very well.

                 And during that time, so in the leadup to the sale, potential buyers are coming to look at them?  I mean are they paraded every day or how often?

                 Yes.  Well, we have it marked in our catalogue the first inspection day and people come along and view these horses, and they can be paraded quite a few dozen times, a popular horse, by our clients, before they're sold.  So, as I say, they get to know the complex pretty well.

                 So I might come and say ‘I’m interested in this horse.’ so then you bring it out and walk it round and I have a look?

                 That's right too, yeah.

                 So it might be coming out - - -

                 Yes, yeah.

                 - - - quite a few times?

                 Quite a few times.  And major buyers, with a bloodstock agent or a trainer, they will look at the horses in draught.  So they might go to, say, Arrowfield and they will ask to see several lots, they might want to see them all.  So they're paraded for the clients and, they're put away and then, you know, they get a good spell at night-time and well looked after, then they're up for the next day; it’s on again.

                 And so you're pretty busy in that time?

                 Yes, yeah.

                 Dovetailing - - -

                 That's right too.

                 - - - the horses’ needs and viewers’ needs, owners’ needs?

                 Yeah, absolutely.  So keeping up with owners and the vendors, you know, looking after them, making sure that they're happy and keeping feeds up and stable waste away and having casual staff wandering round, keeping the facility tidy.  Obviously, there’s a lot of top-end clients, that we expect to have the place looking spot-on for them, which we do most of the time.  So, yeah, a lot of work.

                 And do the owners tend to stay nearby and come in each day?

                 Yes.  Well, the different vendors all stay reasonably close to this facility at Randwick. And they start quite early - they can be here from four in the morning.  So they come in and they’ll clean the stables up, feed horses, exercise the horses – they’ll give them a good walk.  They usually take off again about half past six, and go away for breakfast – some people have breakfast here. Then they’ll return about eight o' clock, half past eight, in their uniform for the day and then there’s a day of parading goes on after that.

                 That’s just before the actual sale?

                 That's right.

                 The day before or not necessarily?

                 Oh, no, it can be several days; it can be up to five or six days before a major sale.  So there’s a lot of parading goes on and there’s also some entertaining goes on.  Each vendor here or a lot of the vendors have a marquee or a facility where they can host their clients and, yeah, quite often that becomes a bit of a social event too in the afternoons or over lunch.  So there’s a bit of a hype around the sale.

                 For the day, yeah.

                 Yeah.

                 Yeah, I got the impression the sales are pretty exciting.

                 Yeah.

                 And so you must get to know – presumably the vendors come again and again, so you’ve got to know a lot of the vendors.

                 Yes.  I've made some wonderful friends over the years and, you know, we may only see each other twice a year but it’s great to catch up and we know what to expect from each other.  And, look, I've met some wonderful people in the industry and great to see their faces when they turn up and we’ve got a lot to catch up on.  So it’s a social time too around a sale; it’s not all hard work.  So, yeah, that’s a nice part of it.

                 And as part of your job, do you ever go out to the studs where the horses are being bred or are raised?

                 Very rarely.  The bloodstock group do go out – they go out to inspect horses.  Now and again I get to Scone for sales and so forth, so I catch up with some people there, but basically I’m pretty much full time here, yes.

                 So tell me about the actual day of the sale.  What happens then?

                 Sale day, you know, it’s game day as such. It’s a bit like, I don't know, a school sports carnival or something.  Everyone’s on their best, and we’re all ties and shiny boots and so forth.

                 Do you wear a uniform too?

                 Yes, yeah.

                 For these occasions, yeah, what do you wear?

                 I wear a shirt and tie and an Inglis uniform.

                 And what colour’s that?

                 It’s navy trousers and a checked blue and white shirt, and it has been a red tie.

                 People can spot you in the crowd easily?

                 That's right too. Our uniforms are designed to be easily spotted so we can help people and people can spot us easily.

                 And the people doing all the looking after the stables, do they wear a uniform?

                 They also wear a uniform, and very, very neat.  So it’s come a long way, even in the time I've been here.  It’s very professional and we have an award every Easter for the best presented vendor, or stud, which everybody takes pride in.  So that consists of a few things, but everyone takes it very seriously.

                 That’s good.  So anyway, on the day how many horses typically might be being sold on a day?  I've looked at catalogues and it’s quite a lot, isn't it?

                 Yeah, so anywhere from one fifty to two hundred on a sale day - some sales do go over that, but we try and keep it to that.  And, yeah, you usually kick off about eleven o' clock. So it gives people time to have a last look at some of the lots, that they're interested in, or some of the horses.  And then the auctioneer starts ringing his bell about eleven o' clock and ‘Sale-o, sale-o’ and we know it’s game on for the day and everybody takes their positions and everyone has a job to do and do it well.

                 And everybody sits in the big covered ring - - -

                 That's right.

                 - - - that can take, what, six hundred, eight hundred?

                 Yeah, nearly up to a thousand.

                 Really?

                 Yeah.

                 Wow.

                 So, yeah, auctioneer’s front and centre in the sales box, and support staff around them, bid spotters, the horse-handlers in their uniforms with their horses in the pre-parade ring.

                 So does the vendor bring their own horse-handler?

                 They do.  Yeah, the vendor in major sales, they will present their own horses.  So they come up to the pre-parade ring, which is just adjacent to the sales ring and, they’ll parade the horse for probably a good ten minutes before it goes into the auction ring, and they’ll have their polish on and looking at their best and then the meet the market, yeah.

                 And a lot of grooming must go on on the horses, does it, too?

                 It does.  There’s lots of grooming involved, and no more than on sale day.  Like, it’s oiled and horses are groomed.

                 Do they bind their ankles, or not anymore?

                 Yes, yeah.  No, no, but they will also brush some shapes, stars, into their coat, usually over the rump, and maybe a plait in a tail or a plait in a mane or something, yeah.

                 So they're really dressed up?

                 Yeah, absolutely.

                 And then you mark them with a lot number, or somebody here does that?

                 That's right, yeah.  They’ll be a lot number in the catalogue and they’ll have a hip sticker which we provide, for sale day only.  So the hip sticker goes on and that’s a very careful process because you want the right sticker on the right horse.

                 Definitely.  So it’s carefully checked?

                 Absolutely.  So that’s checked a few times.

                 And that’s not part of your job? 

                 No, the staff will dress the horse and put their own hip stickers on and present the horses.  However, it is up to us to check that that’s done - - -

                 That it’s the right horse?

                 - - - it’s the right horse.  So there’s a few checks in place to do that; the auctioneer often looks at that, before that I look at it, there’s a girl that wanders round before and looks at it.

                 So there’s plenty of cross-checking?

                 My word, absolutely.

                 Yes, I imagine.  It would be a catastrophe if you got the wrong sticker on.

                 That's right, yeah.  It can happen.

                 And so then the sale begins and, the vendors’ handler brings in their horse?

                 That's right, yes.

                 And how many times do they go round?

                 Quite often.  We sell roughly thirty horses an hour, so it gives a horse a good time in the sales ring, and they're presented.  They might walk around five or six times in the sales ring and, very popular horses, sell, people jump on them quickly - others take a bit longer to sell.  No real rhyme or reason to it, but they meet the market and they find their price.  Some don’t: some have a reserve on them which is negotiated afterwards, which our staff can manage, but most of the time they sell.

                 So they just keep walking round while the bids are going on?

                 That's right too.  So they keep parading them until the horse is knocked down.  I say ‘knocked down’,- until the gavel falls - and the horse is sold, and then off they’ll go.

                 And then they go back to their box?

                 Yeah, they go back to their box and then within usually twenty-four hours they're transported to a facility with a new trainer or a breaker or back to a paddock, depending on the horse.

                 So the onus on the buyer is to take them away then?

                 That's right.  So at the fall of the hammer, the responsibility also falls with the new owner.  So often they will insure them at the fall of the hammer, and then, you know, their trainer takes over from there and would engage a farm, or a facility where the horse goes.

                 So after the big day’s over – we’ll come back to that again in a minute – how soon are all the horses gone then – forty eight hours?

                 Yeah, about forty-eight hours, Virginia.  A lot of them go pretty quickly because they’ve been here a few days already.  You know, for one reason or another we might have one here for a couple of days, which we look after ourselves, and we’re very diligent in doing that.  So no horse gets left behind here and, yeah, then once the horses all leave the complex then it’s another big job again, the cleanup, which can go on for quite a few weeks after a major sale.

                 And presumably the sort of minor repairs, because you said they’ve kicked the timber - - -

                 That's right too.

                 - - - or latches have got weak.

                 Post-sale, yeah, the shavings and the beddings go out, the old feed goes out.  We gurney [high pressure hose] the boxes, and then look for obvious signs of fatigue in the stables.  So, you know, there might be a dangerous splinter or a nail or something, so we carefully look at that before each sale and after.

                 So I was just thinking, also because I was reading about early days and how there was natural water on the site, you must get through a lot of water what with the horses’ drinking needs and, all the cleaning.

                 Cleaning, absolutely, yes.  We use a lot of water and, yeah, horses drink, I guess, up to forty or fifty litres a day in the summer – not so much in winter, obviously.  So to answer your question, yes, we use a lot of water with a gurney, and washing the facility down after a sale.

                 And so just coming back to the sales day, we’ve talked about the horses but the public who come, can anybody come?

                 Absolutely.  We encourage people to come along and see what we do here.  It’s not only for the buyers, although we love buyers, don’t worry, but we encourage groups of people to come in and have a look and see what we do and they usually find that we’re doing it pretty well so they often come back.

                 And do you get kids who are mad about horses coming to watch?

                 We do, yes.  Quite often we have groups of kids coming from a school or something, which we need to manage a little bit but there is a safe area for them to go within the sales ring.  And, you know, just people that are interested, that don’t necessarily own a horse or want to own a horse but they're generally interested in the industry and we welcome them along.

                 And I meant to ask too, when the horses are here and you say in the mornings the owner or the owners care for the horses, looking after it, do they actually take them out and exercise them at the racecourse or anything like that?

                 No.

                 Do they need to be exercised every day?

                 Absolutely they do, they do need to be exercised.  And they come in at four o' clock, a lot of the vendors and staff, and they will walk the horses for a good while out of the stable while another stable staff is doing their box.  Some of them will be walking that horse and they’ll get a good stretch in the morning, come back - - -

                 So walking is enough exercise for a day?

                 Walking is enough; for a young horse, walking is plenty.  So they're not broken in, obviously, so we don’t want them out of a walk, for the best of the horse.  But they have a good stretch and a good walk and then, come back to the box and enjoy their feed, morning feed, and then they're usually pretty happy for the day, yeah.

                 So they don’t need to leave the complex, really?

                 No, no, they don’t need to leave the complex.  And one thing we have developed at Warwick Farm, where we’re heading, is more space.  So with horses and, you know, when you're talking of six hundred horses, you do need a lot of space, which we’re a little bit deprived of here.

                 Site here, yes, and for walking spaces.

                 That's right, yeah.

                 They have to take turns, do they?

                 Take turns, yes, there is a bit of that here at Randwick but it always seems to flow okay; they seem to get away with it, yeah.

                 And there are a couple of specialist areas.  Do you have a sand rolling area for the horses?

                 We do.  And a sand roll plays a critical part in, say, if you have a horse or a colt that is quite full of himself and is a bit over the top.  They can often lunge a horse, which is again exercise which we touched on earlier.  However, that trend has sort of diminished somewhat.  I think people are a little bit more frightened of hurting a horse, so they like to keep them bundled up, without lunging them.

                 So is a lunging yard the same as the sand rolling, or they're different?

                 No, a lunge yard is designed – it’s a little bit bigger – it’s designed to lunge a horse, exercise a horse. 

                 So how do you make it lunge?

                 Often when you put one of these yearlings in a lunging yard, they’ll often lunge themselves.

                 What, they just run around?

                 Yes, they like to have a run around a yard, in a circular motion.  And a sand roll is quite a bit smaller, and they're designed for a horse just to go and have a kick and a buck, and a roll in the sand, and then hop back up and shake off and he’s ready to go back to his box.

                 Yes, I've seen it at Winnererremy Bay because they used to exercise the horses, swim them and then let them roll in the sand.

                 Roll, yeah – they love it, love it.

                 Yeah, they do.  It must be a nice feeling.

                 It must be.

                 Another thing in the sales days is you have a big kind of hospitality aspect.  What exactly goes on?

                 Yeah.  Well, there’s dining available here – there’s various styles of dining.  You can actually sit and dine upstairs and sit down.

                 Does that overlook the sales ring?

                 It does, and that’s often offered to sort of clients that support us well, but then there’s several outlets where you have like a barbeque that anyone can access, and a snack bar.  So there’s a few facilities that you can choose from, and there also is a bar facility which people tend to have a drink towards the end of the day, and chat about what’s going on and it’s, yeah, a part of the theme.

                 Catching up with the news?

                 Yeah, catching up, that's right.

                 And do you have other social functions here?

                 We do.  We have some vendor hire here where recently we’ve been hiring the facility out for a wedding or a birthday party or a bar mitzvah.  There’s several occasions that seem to pop up but, yeah, we’ve found that it’s quite popular and we do that in this big stable here, a lot of it, and it’s become very popular and most weekends in our off-season it’s booked out.

                 Really?

                 Yes.    That's right, yeah.  So that does keep us a little bit busy in the off-season as well.

                 So just coming back to the sales, I know you had your last in April, the Easter sale - - -

                 Yeah.

                 - - - but how many were you having each year?

                 Yeah, so we’d start off with our Classic sale at the beginning of the year which was a two or three day sale.

                 Involving, what, six hundred - - -

                 Six hundred horses, yes, yeah.  And then there’s a few minor sales in between and then we build up to our Easter sale which is the Grand Final, and our Brood Mare sale straight after Easter, but Easter being the big one.

                 And then later in the year are there more?

                 Later in the year, yeah, we have a breeze-up sale, which is horses that are broken in and they are trained, and they usually breeze up or gallop over two hundred metres.  And that’s becoming a popular sale, so people can come along and buy a racehorse, all ready to go on with.  Yeah, and a few other smaller sales throughout the year.

                 So it’s a fairly constant program.

                 It is, yeah, it is.

                 Yeah, what with the build-up and then the clean-up afterwards.

                 That's right too.  So predominantly the season, we kick off with our February sale, and by sort of June it’s wrapped up but there’s other smaller sales through the year that keep us busy, or have done in the past.

                 And you talked about casual staff.  Are a lot of them local people who come and work here?

                 Yes.  Well, we have several locals that help us sort of clean up over a sale, or prep for a sale.  However, we have a group of chaps that come down from country areas, to the sale, and join us to help out, which has proven very successful.

                 What, because they're already working maybe on a stud farm?

                 Yeah, they can be working on a stud farm, or a cattle farm and they sort of -- -

                 Know the ropes.

                 - - - yeah, know the ropes, they have a horse background and they're happy to come, and not only work but they catch up with people and socialise and it’s a bit of a ‘come to town’ for these guys so, yeah, it’s a bit of fun too.

                 Have there been any incidents that sort of stand out in your mind, you know, like a fire or a horse running away?

                 Yeah, we’ve had a couple over the years.  We used to have a trainer that trained from the facility here at Newmarket in a small area, and I remember one day hearing a horse make his way up Young Street and towards Barker Street, which wasn’t a nice feeling, so luckily that horse, we caught him before the service station, which is only around the corner.  So no real severe incidents in my time.  We’ve had some nasty incidents where staff have been kicked, or struck, or trodden on but, touch wood, nothing severe, which is always in the back of your mind.  We sort of put things in place to try and minimise that, which seems to be working.  However, they're a very unpredictable animal and a big animal, so we always exercise caution.

                 Yes.  A kick is quite a big blow.

                 It is too, yes.

                 And I know there’ve been a couple of incidents where you had an outbreak of botulism not long after you arrived here, I think.  Do you know what happened and what caused it?

                 I don’t.  I remember it well, because it was only a month after I started, and it was my first Easter and, you know, horses were dying in one area, then the next night they were sort of dying in other areas. And I don't know if they ever found that it was in the feed, but they certainly looked at that, and I don't know that there was any conclusion.  However, it was a tough time and, I think there was about forty horses passed away in a few days, so it had everybody on tenterhooks, and it was something you'd prefer not to remember too much about, but however, it happened and it was real.  So it was handled very professionally.

                 Did you have lots of vets on site?

                 Yes, lots of vets on site and, you know, as quick as they could they were taking bloods and, trying to get to the bottom of it.  I remember there were lots of meetings going on, and a lot of uncertainty.

                 Did they know immediately what the cause was, saying, ‘Yes, that’s the problem’?

                 Evidently, it’s pretty hard to detect botulism – which they did detect after a little while – but it certainly had everybody worried for the first few days because it took them a few days to find out what it was.  And anyway, the sale did go on after a few days, but it wasn’t a great Easter.

                 And so I suppose if you felt it was the feed, then at least you could change all that and so it kind of contained itself, the outbreak?

                 That's right too.  So we sort of did lock up feed rooms, and we supplied new feed. We took measures.  Right from the first horse getting crook, we started to put measures in place but it soon came around, that it was botulism and, like I say, I don't know that they ever really got to the bottom of where it came from, but I certainly don’t want to see it again.

                 No, definitely.  And then the other big, more recent event which affected all of Australia, I think, or potentially, was the outbreak of equine flu in 2007 and that must have impacted on sales.

                 Yes, it did.  Luckily enough, we didn’t have horses onsite at the time.  If we had have done, we’d have been stuck with them as everyone was quarantined, but it put a hold on the whole industry, for a long time, and that sort of slowed things up and, yeah, it was sort of uncertain times and people were frustrated and whatnot.  But anyway we worked our way through it, and we actually set up here as a quarantine facility, and actually, it was in December, I think, from memory and then we hipped horses from New South Wales to Melbourne and we worked closely with the DPI doing that.

                 The DPI?

                 Yeah, the Department of Primary Industries, yeah. They were good to work with.  They were very professional, and this facility turned into a facility where they could house horses, and then ship them out to Melbourne, Victoria.

                 All right.  So if they thought that a horse was sickening, they'd immediately bring them here where you could keep them quarantined?

                 No, not so much, no.  It was when the EI started to loosen up a little bit, and there was lots of pressure on to get horses to Victoria for one reason or another, so we helped out there in the thoroughbred – not only in the thoroughbred industry - but with all horses having to move from state to state.

[Engine noise pause]

                 So why were they going to Victoria? 

                 Some of the stables at the time wanted to move horses to Victoria.  Things were very well locked down in New South Wales and Queensland at the time, so I think people that had horses that were not unwell, were keen to get them to Victoria.

                 They wanted to race them and get them moving?

                 Yeah, get them to Victoria and for other reasons as well.

                 So Victoria was clear?

                 That's right too.  And it was the breeding started in September so people wanted to move mares around, which was very tricky.  A lot of mares were bred on the studs they were on, and, yeah, it was very tricky.

                 Couldn’t move them?

                 That's right.

                 They were all quarantined on their home stud?

                 That's right, yeah.

                 I understand now, yeah. 

                 Can we talk a bit about this building that we’re sitting in?  It’s known as the big stables and we’re sitting in your office - - -

                 That's right.

                 - - - which is on the corner of it, along with lots of bridles and even yokes for plough horses and all sorts of things, and whips.

                 Yes.

                 A nice office.

                 It is.  It is our office but we call it the tack room and we have all our, as you said, bridles and gear here.  And not only our recent gear: there’s gear here from the past, that Inglises have an old horse-drawn lorry and this harness is a part of that.

                 Really?

                 It goes back a while.  But, yeah, this building was built in around 1880, circa 1880, and it’s a magnificent building that if anyone hasn’t been here, it’s well worth a look and it should be here forever, I’m told.  The architecture and the building work in it, it’s something else. And it’s a pleasant place to be.

                 You like having your office in here?

                 I love having it, yeah.  It’s quiet, and I can get on and get things done and not be sort of harassed by anyone else but it is, it’s something special; it’s a walk back in time when you come in here.

                 And it’s all timber built and you as a carpenter can appreciate that.

                 That's right too, absolutely, yeah.  No, I love it and, yeah, you can see that – and I often wonder did they have scaffolding in 1880, or what sort of gear did they have.

                 How did they build it?

                 How did they built it but they sure did a good - - -

                 With the two storeys.

                 That's right, the two storeys, and what a job.

                 And you said the timber they used was - - -

                 There’s a lot of Oregon in this stable – the majority of it is actually Oregon – which sort of white ants have had a bit of fun with at times over the years, and it’s been corrected, and it still stands tall and strong today.

                 And it’s all painted in livery colours of the period, aren't they?

                 Absolutely.

                 Mustard yellow and the maroon.

                 Yeah, and pale greens and, yeah, it takes you back.  And we still use it to house horses and, funnily enough the horses settle down very well in here.  They're a bit bigger, the stables, so I think that helps too, and they're very happy horses that are housed in here.

                 Really?  So sometimes you're in your office with nineteen horses just right here or just down the corridor.

                 Exactly, exactly right.  I sometimes get a neigh in the background and, yeah, so very pleasant, very pleasant office.

                 And as a carpenter, have you noticed things about the way it’s built, sort of particular features you appreciate?

                 Yes, absolutely.  You wouldn’t see a building built like this these days, and I appreciate all the work that’s gone into it.  Being a carpenter, you know, you look at it and think they had a lot of time to do things back in those days, and it sure would have been good to work on it somewhere.

                 Also you mentioned the other day that there were carved initials or carvings in some of the boxes.

                 Yes.  Throughout the Second World War it was a detention centre which housed AWOL soldiers, so I’m led to believe. And over the years replacing some timbers here I've often noticed carvings in the doors or the walls and, you know, HMAS Sydney and things like that.

                 They’ve left their mark.

                 They’ve left their mark and, yeah, a bit of a reminder of what once went on here.

                 So no more horses will come here now.

                 No, no.  The last horses have left, and now it'll be interesting to see what they do with the building, and I’m sure they’ll look after it. And I'll still like to come back here and have a look, I’m sure.

                 Yes.  It’s going to be a public, community centre and Randwick Council’s getting it, isn't it?

                 Yes.  Evidently, Randwick Council, yes, yeah, so it'll be interesting and I'll look forward to coming back here.

                 And it was heavily restored too, wasn’t it - - -

                 It was, yeah.

                 - - - about a hundred years after it was built.

                 That's right too, that's right.

                 Should be good.

                 Yeah, and lots of people have lots of memories here and I was married here.

                 Were you?

                 Yes, yeah. 

                 What, in the main hall over there - - -

                 Yeah, in the main hall.

                 - - - where all the boxes, stables are?

                 Yes, that's right, stable, so it’s lots of fond memories for me.

                 Because of the high windows it has lovely light, doesn’t it?

                 Yeah, magnificent light and certain times of the day different light, so photographers love it.  They walk in, and they all of a sudden have a smile on their face.

                 And the floors are brick too with …

                 That's right too.  Yeah, all paved stables, and funny enough some of them are paved a little bit different to others, so I don't know whether they were different tradesmen or they had a contrast but it’s well worth a look at.

                 Artistic licence; they were allowed to do it how they liked.

                 That's right, yeah, perhaps.

                 So shortly, or by the end of the year, you'll be moving out of here and so Inglis and Co are in the process of dismantling the site.  So what’s happening exactly, and where’s it all going?

                 Yes.  So the latest stables that were built here, there’s a lot of good timber in them.

                 So that’s three and - - -

                 Yeah, stable 1, 2 and 4, we’re going to salvage the timber from those, which is in good order, and all that timber will be docked to a length, and then taken out to Warwick Farm and used in the stables out there.  So it'll be quite nice to see some of the old timber out there going into the new stables, which, I think is a great idea, and a good way of not wasting any material.

                 Yeah, and it gives a bit of continuity.

                 That's right too.

                 So what’s happening out at Warwick Farm?

                 Yeah, so Warwick Farm, I was only there this morning and it’s coming along lovely. And stables evidently on the water there, they're coming from overseas and they’ll be here I think towards the end of the month, and they’ll start putting those up and then the timber from here will go into those frames.  And stable 3 here, which is our older stable we mentioned earlier, we’ve salvaged a lot of the older timber out of there for joinery work, and you'll see it pop up in features throughout the hotel, and so that’s going to be a welcome surprise to people too, I think.

                 So at Warwick Farm, Inglis are setting up a new complex for sales now, so there’s a hotel which is big enough for - - -

                 Yes, it’s about a hundred and fifty rooms.

                 Right.

                 And it’s going to be a world-class facility and the beauty of Warwick Farm, it’s been purpose-built for an equine sale facility, and we’ve all been involved it, staff, and we think we have a pretty good facility that will meet the highest demands.

                 So you’ve all input into the design?

                 Yes, yeah.

                 That’s fantastic, yeah.

                 In each of our areas we’ve all had input. And the struggles we have here, you know, we’ve tried to improve all of that – well, we have improved all of that – going to Warwick Farm.

                 And you say you'll have a lot more space out there?

                 A lot more space.  As we touched on earlier, there’s more space for the horses, which is the most important thing, to parade them and to exercise them, bigger stables - they’ll be well received.  And also for the general public, there’s a lot of space out there, lots of things to look at, yeah, so it’s a vast improvement on this facility.

                 Which is a bit tight.

                 Yeah.  See, we’ve actually outgrown this facility, sad enough, but, trying to fit, you know, six and seven hundred horses in a facility like this, and then get those sold, and then sell two or three days later, having to get horses out of here, and other horses in, has become a real struggle.

                 What, partly because of the size but also city traffic?  Is that all part of a bigger problem?

                 That's right too.  We’ve been affected by what’s going on around Randwick, and it would be very difficult to operate in this area with the size of our trucks, and traffic and so forth.  It’s just become pretty tricky to run a horse sale in Randwick.

                 And do you think like because Warwick Farm is, kind of more on the edge of Sydney, that actually as a lot of the horses are coming from rural areas, they won't have to come right through the city?  They can skirt around on the peripheral routes.

                 That's right too.  It’s not far off the M5 – it’s only ten minutes off the M5 – so horses will be able to enjoy a pretty smooth trip, right to the facility from the farm, and that’s going to be a great thing for horses, and strappers, and all alike.  It'll be just so much easier: we won't be crossing roads with horses and young horses.

                 It'll take some of the - - -

                 That's right.

                 - - - nail biting out of it.

                 Takes some of the angst out of it.

                 And so you'll move to Warwick Farm - - -

                 That's right, yeah.

                 - - - at the end of the year, is it?

                 Yeah, so I'll stay here ‘til probably Christmastime and sort of oversee what’s going on here and then by next month I'll be getting out to Warwick Farm a bit more, and then moving away from here at Christmas time and looking forward to the new sales season, 2018.

                 Getting ready for that.

                 Yes.

                 So when will the first sale be then?

                 February 2018, so not far away.

                 Yeah, you'll be busy preparing now I know the schedule.

                 Yeah, we will be busy because, yeah, we may not get into the stables to actually physically bed them down, until January. But we’ll have things in place to get it done pretty quickly.  We’ll have extra staff on, and we’ll be ready for the Classic sale in 2018.

                 Great.

                 Yeah.

                 And you’ve lived here in one of the old cottages.  How old is Chiltern Cottage?

                 Chiltern, I'm not sure of the age of it.  However, I do believe that it’s not as old as the big house, but it was built not a long time after.  So, yeah, I love the Chiltern House as such and I've raised a family there, and we’re very fond of it there.  My wife and I have the cottage, and our lifestyle here; we have a couple of dogs and we think we’re pretty lucky.

                 And will you be living in a cottage at Warwick Farm?

                 Yes, yeah.  There’ll be a cottage available there to live in.  So that will be not on site, it'll be offsite, which has its positives as well.

                 So, yeah, Warwick Farm will be good in lots of ways and a new facility but I guess there’ll be things that you'll miss, from living here all these years.

                 Yeah, absolutely.  I guess the main thing I'll miss is the area.  I love Randwick and probably the complex itself; it has lots of memories for me, right back to John Inglis; I have fond memories of John who we called ‘the boss.’

                 So he was here when you first came, was he?

                 He was here, yeah.

                 Because you talked about Reg.

                 That's right too.  The boss was the chairman at the time and, he was a great man.  He made us all feel very welcome, and we’d run into each other weekends too, but, you know, it was a community here, and quite often I'd be walking around with the children, and the boss would be about, and we’d chat Saturdays, Sundays.  And you used to watch the boss go off to the races about an hour before the first race, and come home about an hour after the last, and that just became part of your life, like, you know, ‘There goes the boss.  He’s off to the races.’ and so this was a community.  We had several other staff living in cottages around the complex as well, and it was a real community. And we used to – and we still do – we all look out for one another and, yeah, that’s probably what I'll mostly miss.

                 So John Inglis was living in Newmarket House here?

                 Newmarket, yes, Mr and Mrs Inglis lived in the house.  And, yes, the boss, he loved the simple things in life.  He loved his racing, but he loved pigeon racing, and just generally, life.  He had a lovely dog and loved to see children around.

                 And his own children, Arthur and - - -

                 That's right too, yeah, Arthur, and he raised his family here before I came along.  Yeah, so he was a great fellow.

                 And do you see Arthur Inglis – does he live here some of the time?

                 Arthur stays here on and off.  Arthur lives in the Southern Highlands – however he spends time here and, yeah, Arthur is often about the complex as well, so, we see a lot of each other as well.

                 So there’s daily contact between everyone.

                 That's right, absolutely, yeah.

                 So you'll miss all that.  What about your office – will you miss that?

                 I will, I will miss this office.

                 I would, I think – it’s lovely.

                 We’re going to have a great facility out there but this, yeah, this is a bit special . There’s a lot of water gone under the bridge here.  So, lots of sales, lots of staff over the years, mentors, so it’s a great spot.

                 Well, it sounds like it’s been an interesting job that has encompassed a lot of your interests - - -

                 Absolutely.

                 - - - but it’s not another predictable job exactly.  I mean there are predictable parts of it, and the people.

                 Yeah, absolutely.  I'm lucky to have had this job at Randwick here, like using my carpentry skills and horse skills, developing my horse skills, and you're working on this building alone.  I've replaced the staircases over the years, which was a great job, and generally looking after it and looking after the facility.

                 And do you still have a horse?

                 I do, I do, I still have a horse.

                 You do?  Where’s your horse?

                 My horse is at Werris Creek, I think, at the moment. But I have a small interest in cutting horses and I'm sort of at the bottom of the ladder, but I muck around every now and again with a cutting horse.

                 What’s a cutting horse?

                 A cutting horse is a horse that you use in an event, where you cut cattle out.  So you go into an arena and you pick out a certain cow and you cut it out from the rest of the mob and, work that cow, and then you go back and pick another one.

                 Right, so you do that?

                 Yes, yes.

                 It sounds a bit like bullfighting, practically.

                 No, no, it’s a lot safer than bullfighting.  It’s a small interest, but it does take me back to a child, mustering cattle and whatnot, so I love it.  Unfortunately, I don't get to do a lot of it, but it’s something I'll probably pursue later on in life.

                 So they have events around the countryside?

                 They do, yeah.

                 Do they go alongside other race meets or just it’s its own sort of - - -

                 No, no.  Yeah, it’s separate to the thoroughbred industry.  It’s the National Cutting Horse Association and they do a great job, and events are usually in the country.  Every now and again you see something pop up in Sydney or a city but, mostly in the country areas.

                 And do you ride bareback?  I'm picturing it.

                 No, no.

                 No, you’ve got a saddle.

                 No, we have a saddle.  I'd probably slip off if I was riding bareback.  But, you know, it keeps my hand in a bit, and I think it’s a great sport.  I've met a lot of people through that sport away from the thoroughbred industry.  However, there are some of the thoroughbred industry people within that sport, as well.  So, yeah, it’s a bit of a crossover, but it’s a bit of a tonic for me.

                 It sounds fun if you're good at it.

                 That’s right.  Well, I'm not that good at it - - -

                 I'm sure you are.

                 - - - but I have a lot of fun.

                 Well, you can stay on your horse anyway.

                 That’s right, yeah.

                 And so what satisfies you most in your work in this area?

                 I think, I love the animal; I love seeing a nice horse come to the sales and watch him paraded, or her, and then watch them sell well.  I like watching good stories: people selling a horse, and reaping the benefits of selling that horse.  The good stories, and also the characters in the game, right from the hobby breeders, right through to the top end; they're all good people and they’ve all got a story to tell and, yeah, that’s a great part of the thoroughbred industry.

                 You mentioned a particular fellow you worked with, Burraston.

                 Yes, I was lucky enough to work with a chap by the name of Jack Burraston, who worked for the Inglis family for many years, and luckily enough we had about ten or fifteen years together, and he taught me quite a lot about horses on the ground – it was good.

                 Was he a trainer or what was his background?

                 No, he was more or less a strapper but, he was a groom – he went to the Mexico Olympics as a groom, so he was a good hand.  And he was a very well-read gentleman and a very intelligent man, who also loved the bush; he used to love to get out to the bush and come back and, we’d swap stories, and we had similar interests.  We liked our cattle dogs, and we loved the bush and we loved horses, so Jack and I got along pretty well.

                 And when you say he taught you a lot about horses, how do you look at a horse to appraise it – what sort of features are you looking for?

                 I like typically a good athlete. And I don’t know, I don't think there’s any secret or any key to it, but I like a horse that turns your head a few times – you think ‘I like that horse’ – and then you may see the horse a day later and you know, ‘Oh, that’s that horse I saw yesterday.‘ So I don’t know how to describe it.

                 It sticks in your mind.

                 Yeah, absolutely.

                 Is it the way they move?

                 The way they move, the way they're conformed.  And, look, they're all different; especially when you get them together, you can pick all the differences. But, you know, well conformed horses.  I think everyone has the same idea, however not the same taste, so that’s what keeps it interesting.

                 Yeah, and also what you want the horse for too, I guess is part of it.

                 That’s right too, yeah, absolutely.  All your questions are good – keeping me rolling a bit.

                 We’ve covered a lot this morning.

                 We have, haven't we?

                 And, yeah, it’s been really interesting.  Thank you very much.  I had no idea.

                 I've got several photographs.  What I should do is email them to you, should I? 

                 Yeah, that’d be good.

                 This one, I don’t know.

                 They're electronic, are they?

                 Yeah.

                 Well, Jeff, thank you very much.  It’s been a really interesting morning hearing about all your work, and your involvement here and your appreciation of horses and carpentry, and I wish you all the best when you move to Warwick Farm.

                 Thanks very much, Virginia.  It was my pleasure and, I wish you well as well.

                 Thank you.